Core enhance

[IvanX]

Gonna disagree and say that you're insane if you set the core at 200%. You will fry your core for a measly 8,000 energy. And you promptly lose all that energy and then some when you have to shut off the core (unless you can finish the opponent super quick, but if you could do that you probably didn't need to wreck your core). I don't want to call a system where there's options that are never a good idea to use perfect.

That said this feels like a band-aid fix. Why's the cutoff at 150%? And while it makes 200% worth using ... it doesn't make any of the other core settings usable. Whats the point of setting the core at 195%? And is this balanced with core purge? (nope, unless you think having a 175 GW advantage for 5 minutes is balanced) I think the solution needs to be more clever.

No point to do 195 really, the point is that after 150% you lose core pretty fast and if you're going to burn it till you get 20% stability, then that gap between 150% to 200% is something that delays you, with current delay on core inc/dec, it takes around... 10 seconds to push there and 10 seconds back, so when you're doing a 200%, you risk not to push it back to stable in time.

Why 150%? pretty simple at 150% core loss is ~ 0,5 per tick, that is not too small, nor too big of a loss, so you can live with that, thus the function will still be usable.

And about more clever idea, what about making shields charging depend on core as well? like (shield gain rate * core output / 100), this way you will not be able to supercharge it for long, but pushing core above 120% will be worth your while, atm 150% is rare occasion when u got really low energy, also gotta decrease the default shield recharge rate by 10% to keep the balance, cause 110% is kinda nearly stable output

[Corinthian]

How About:

Eject Core: The BattleCruiser Core is Ejected into Space.

The Core is stationary and is launched from the same place ships are launched from. It has ~600 Health and will explode for ~4,000 Damage at the end of 4 seconds. If it is destroyed before the 4 seconds have elapsed, it detonates prematurely. The damage is an Area-of-Effect with a radius at least as large as a BattleCruiser length.

With the Core Ejected the BattleCruiser of course only has Capacitor and Power Dock energy available.

This ability is activated on the Power Console, but for safety a second page has to be opened to access it.
Energy Cost to Eject: 0
Cost to Replace: 300y 90b 30g 30seconds (this is on the Upgrade Console)
Reputation Prerequisite: 60

[DumbMarine]

No point to do 195 really, the point is that after 150% you lose core pretty fast and if you're going to burn it till you get 20% stability, then that gap between 150% to 200% is something that delays you, with current delay on core inc/dec, it takes around... 10 seconds to push there and 10 seconds back, so when you're doing a 200%, you risk not to push it back to stable in time.

While doing power like that is certainly risky because an unlucky fire will cause your BC to blow, but I do not factor in human error because it's possible to automate that away with experience. "Okay I need to start reducing the core at 13.6% stability". There is no risk. You can also set a mental note using the in game clock "okay at 19:45 I need to reduce the core". This is only a risk for newbies. If this change happened, I would run the core at 200% no problem, and I'm sure you would too once you knew the super secret timing to pull it off.

And about more clever idea, what about making shields charging depend on core as well? like (shield gain rate * core output / 100), this way you will not be able to supercharge it for long, but pushing core above 120% will be worth your while, atm 150% is rare occasion when u got really low energy, also gotta decrease the default shield recharge rate by 10% to keep the balance, cause 110% is kinda nearly stable output

Its a good idea but the problem is that you basically make overclocking the core no longer a good idea in combat. The whole point of raising the core over 135% is to get more power in combat for your shields-- if you sabotage your shields in the process you're basically getting nowhere.

And this would make it so that teams could turn shields into energy, but there's already a better way to do that: reduce power to shields.

[DumbMarine]

How About:

Eject Core: The BattleCruiser Core is Ejected into Space.

The Core is stationary and is launched from the same place ships are launched from. It has ~600 Health and will explode for ~4,000 Damage at the end of 4 seconds. If it is destroyed before the 4 seconds have elapsed, it detonates prematurely. The damage is an Area-of-Effect with a radius at least as large as a BattleCruiser length.

With the Core Ejected the BattleCruiser of course only has Capacitor and Power Dock energy available.

This ability is activated on the Power Console, but for safety a second page has to be opened to access it.
Energy Cost to Eject: 0
Cost to Replace: 300y 90b 30g 30seconds (this is on the Upgrade Console)
Reputation Prerequisite: 60

This seems like a cool ability. What if the health and "time before it explodes" was based on the core stability as the core is launched? So if you launch it at 100% stability (for whatever reason) it would take like 20 seconds to explode and have 10k HP. If you launch it at 1% stability, it would basically explode as soon as it arrived.

[IvanX]

How About:

Eject Core: The BattleCruiser Core is Ejected into Space.

The Core is stationary and is launched from the same place ships are launched from. It has ~600 Health and will explode for ~4,000 Damage at the end of 4 seconds. If it is destroyed before the 4 seconds have elapsed, it detonates prematurely. The damage is an Area-of-Effect with a radius at least as large as a BattleCruiser length.

With the Core Ejected the BattleCruiser of course only has Capacitor and Power Dock energy available.

This ability is activated on the Power Console, but for safety a second page has to be opened to access it.
Energy Cost to Eject: 0
Cost to Replace: 300y 90b 30g 30seconds (this is on the Upgrade Console)
Reputation Prerequisite: 60

This seems like a cool ability. What if the health and "time before it explodes" was based on the core stability as the core is launched? So if you launch it at 100% stability (for whatever reason) it would take like 20 seconds to explode and have 10k HP. If you launch it at 1% stability, it would basically explode as soon as it arrived.

That ability is too imbalanced, especially in starting fights, that would be a good and easy way to finish enemy off in a close fight when you're losing, esp if you run away, you just launch it behind u and gg... plus it will obviously become "the last shot in 95% of the fights". So it only has a chance of being there if it's avoidable, and 1% stability launch when chasing enemy can't dodge it is kinda overkill.

[DumbMarine]

That ability is too imbalanced, especially in starting fights, that would be a good and easy way to finish enemy off in a close fight when you're losing, esp if you run away, you just launch it behind u and gg... plus it will obviously become "the last shot in 95% of the fights". So it only has a chance of being there if it's avoidable, and 1% stability launch when chasing enemy can't dodge it is kinda overkill.

I never said you couldn't dodge it.

You can also shoot it down.

[IvanX]

No point to do 195 really, the point is that after 150% you lose core pretty fast and if you're going to burn it till you get 20% stability, then that gap between 150% to 200% is something that delays you, with current delay on core inc/dec, it takes around... 10 seconds to push there and 10 seconds back, so when you're doing a 200%, you risk not to push it back to stable in time.

While doing power like that is certainly risky because an unlucky fire will cause your BC to blow, but I do not factor in human error because it's possible to automate that away with experience. "Okay I need to start reducing the core at 13.6% stability". There is no risk. You can also set a mental note using the in game clock "okay at 19:45 I need to reduce the core". This is only a risk for newbies. If this change happened, I would run the core at 200% no problem, and I'm sure you would too once you knew the super secret timing to pull it off.

Well, obviously i meant all those functions for vets, risks, timings, calculation of efficiency, that's what makes vets strong, I'm on the side of the skills, the more you played, the more skilled you should get. Some 5th time captain shouldn't be able to do energy as good as a 300 rep vet, and while default "raise shields b4 combat, lower when energy is low, etc..." that you learn at very start, you don't get much more viable things to do. And abusing core is one of them. And especially for core output, i just want everything to be worthwhile, because having functions of increasing core to 200%, while only first 150% are not suicidal, that just leaves us a black hole in controls.

And about more clever idea, what about making shields charging depend on core as well? like (shield gain rate * core output / 100), this way you will not be able to supercharge it for long, but pushing core above 120% will be worth your while, atm 150% is rare occasion when u got really low energy, also gotta decrease the default shield recharge rate by 10% to keep the balance, cause 110% is kinda nearly stable output

Its a good idea but the problem is that you basically make overclocking the core no longer a good idea in combat. The whole point of raising the core over 135% is to get more power in combat for your shields-- if you sabotage your shields in the process you're basically getting nowhere.

And this would make it so that teams could turn shields into energy, but there's already a better way to do that: reduce power to shields.

uhm, i have no idea what u mean by turning shields to energy, you waste much more energy to charge then you get back when you overlap it, maybe you just got me wrong. What i meant was the speed at which shields charge. I don't know the current % per second shields restore, but lets say it's 1%, so when u have shields at 5 gw, they are 0/100 and regain 1 point per second, but if you had 5 gw on shields and core output 200%, you'd still have 0/200, but gained 2 points per second, same goes for higher shields, that would make shields harder, so you'd have a choice as a power manager:
* raising shields high before combat as they are supposed to atm;
* raise shields 1/2 as high but increasing core output to some crazy amount (150% if the first suggestion isn't applied, 200% if it is)
* just use core output to manage shields when they're going down, increase their regain, increase their hardness, you already can do that with emergency shield recharger, but that value is not percentaged, and is used mostly to restore shields from 0, not to increase the regen. You can also use both.

Just give power management a choice, make it a non-linear progress

That ability is too imbalanced, especially in starting fights, that would be a good and easy way to finish enemy off in a close fight when you're losing, esp if you run away, you just launch it behind u and gg... plus it will obviously become "the last shot in 95% of the fights". So it only has a chance of being there if it's avoidable, and 1% stability launch when chasing enemy can't dodge it is kinda overkill.

I never said you couldn't dodge it.

You can also shoot it down.

Ye but if it blows up as soon as u launch it +0.5 seconds, hostile cruiser just has no chance to dodge it, especially if you are running off and your boost has 3 sec less on cooldown then enemy team, you just overlap it, send it out same time with boost, enemy will not be able to do anything, boost will be still down, shooting it.... well suggested 600 hp is too much to kill it within 0,5 seconds, considering you can only actually hit it when it's already outside hostile cruiser. try dodging that i'd say.

Overall i do not think that it is a bad idea, just needs some thinking on how to make it actually possible to avoid.


-------------------------------------

plus i still vote for a switch from +/-5 GW per second to +/- 10 GW for power console when you research fusion core upgrade of level 3 and above

[DumbMarine]

Well, obviously i meant all those functions for vets, risks, timings, calculation of efficiency, that's what makes vets strong, I'm on the side of the skills, the more you played, the more skilled you should get. Some 5th time captain shouldn't be able to do energy as good as a 300 rep vet, and while default "raise shields b4 combat, lower when energy is low, etc..." that you learn at very start, you don't get much more viable things to do. And abusing core is one of them. And especially for core output, i just want everything to be worthwhile, because having functions of increasing core to 200%, while only first 150% are not suicidal, that just leaves us a black hole in controls.

Yeah but we're back to square 1 with vets, what's the point of core output levels of 150 to 195?

uhm, i have no idea what u mean by turning shields to energy, you waste much more energy to charge then you get back when you overlap it, maybe you just got me wrong. What i meant was the speed at which shields charge. I don't know the current % per second shields restore, but lets say it's 1%, so when u have shields at 5 gw, they are 0/100 and regain 1 point per second, but if you had 5 gw on shields and core output 200%, you'd still have 0/200, but gained 2 points per second, same goes for higher shields, that would make shields harder, so you'd have a choice as a power manager:

Oh sorry, I assumed you meant high core = low shield.

I don't think boosting the shield by boosting the core is a good idea, on the basis that shieldtanking is already too good right now. Being able to make it even better by raising the core sounds like it would make the problem worse. Like, with your core change, I could set the core to 200% and get nearly double the shield power I do right now for 5 minutes. No amount of firepower would get through 600 GW shields (which would be energy neutral because the core's at 200%).

Ye but if it blows up as soon as u launch it +0.5 seconds, hostile cruiser just has no chance to dodge it

Next you'll be telling me it's impossible to dodge yamato blasts >_>

[Siretu]

No point to do 195 really, the point is that after 150% you lose core pretty fast and if you're going to burn it till you get 20% stability, then that gap between 150% to 200% is something that delays you, with current delay on core inc/dec, it takes around... 10 seconds to push there and 10 seconds back, so when you're doing a 200%, you risk not to push it back to stable in time.

While doing like that is certainly risky because an unlucky will cause your BC to blow, but I do not factor in human error because it's possible to automate that away with experience. "Okay I need to start reducing the core at 13.6% stability". There is no risk. You can also set a mental note using the in game clock "okay at 19:45 I need to reduce the core". This is only a risk for newbies. If this change happened, I would run the core at 200% no problem, and I'm sure you would too once you knew the super secret timing to pull it off.

Well, obviously i meant all those functions for vets, risks, timings, calculation of efficiency, that's what makes vets strong, I'm on the side of the skills, the more you played, the more skilled you should get. Some 5th time captain shouldn't be able to do energy as good as a 300 rep vet, and while default "raise shields b4 combat, lower when energy is low, etc..." that you learn at start, you don't get much more viable things to do. And abusing core is of them. And especially for core output, i just want everything to be worthwhile, because having functions of increasing core to 200%, while only first 150% are not suicidal, that just leaves us a black hole in controls.

The problem here is that you're assuming it's not worthwhile. As you said, a 5th time captain shouldn't be as good at management as a 300 rep veteran. Now I know you're a experienced player, but let's assume I'm better than you at management(it's been my favorite role for two years after all). Now the fact is that I often raise core 150% without it being suicidal. I frequently use it in combination with the emergency shield energizers which makes the core lower by an additional 0.5% / second. I mostly just do this when I'm against a good manager or when the enemy team surprised us, but it works and it gives us the energy to raise shields as much as we need to survive as well as the engines to get away and reset.

The question is, should I change the mechanics because 150%+ is out of your league, or should I keep it the way it is(which works for me and many other experienced managers I've talked to)

[IvanX]

Yeah but we're back to square 1 with vets, what's the point of core output levels of 150 to 195?

just as i said, i already considered that before posting in the first place, i thought of mb giving it low raise in loss, but then i just realized... why would we do that, if you can just make them all useless "switch from 150 to 200 and back to 150" parts, the time it requires to lower core output is already enough of a hardship, especially when your core is low and u get kicked off console, it is just to make it harder to timing, you wouldn't want your core at 150 to 195, but you would have to pass through it twice, while raising up and back down.

Oh sorry, I assumed you meant high core = low shield.

I don't think boosting the shield by boosting the core is a good idea, on the basis that shieldtanking is already too good right now. Being able to make it even better by raising the core sounds like it would make the problem worse. Like, with your core change, I could set the core to 200% and get nearly double the shield power I do right now for 5 minutes. No amount of firepower would get through 600 GW shields (which would be energy neutral because the core's at 200%).

Well, i really think that shield tanking is the only good way of tanking, i know that new single feature on science console to drain energy from shots taken is meant to make hull tanking viable, but it isn't and i don't think it is supposed to be viable, shields are made to withstand damage, hull is made to take upon mistakes. So ye, why not, it's not making it super good, plus u lose core pretty fast 0,5 per tick, and tick is like half a second i think.

Ye but if it blows up as soon as u launch it +0.5 seconds, hostile cruiser just has no chance to dodge it

Next you'll be telling me it's impossible to dodge yamato blasts >_>

hah, you should read that another thread, where i did say yamato blasts are impossible to dodge, cause it is, especially now that cruisr is 1 screen sized ^^ OFC i don't take in mind noob navs that shoot yamato from 15 screens and hardly in the middle of target.

The problem here is that you're assuming it's not worthwhile. As you said, a 5th time captain shouldn't be as good at management as a 300 rep veteran. Now I know you're a experienced player, but let's assume I'm better than you at management(it's been my favorite role for two years after all). Now the fact is that I often raise core 150% without it being suicidal. I frequently use it in combination with the emergency shield energizers which makes the core lower by an additional 0.5% / second. I mostly just do this when I'm against a good manager or when the enemy team surprised us, but it works and it gives us the energy to raise shields as much as we need to survive as well as the engines to get away and reset.

The question is, should I change the mechanics because 150%+ is out of your league, or should I keep it the way it is(which works for me and many other experienced managers I've talked to)

Well, i am not sure how many games you played so far, usually developers don't enjoy playing their own maps that much, but i'm pretty sure i played it more on the latest updates by at least 5 times, and a lot and much more has changed in balance since older versions, and from what i figured, every 3rd new version you gotta play differently. So from my point of view, we just need to make a decent games with equal teams. One side will have those who think 150% core+ is suicide, and second team - thinking it's really worth it and it's great as it is now and then see who'll win.