Cruiser Command

or just steel the mothership core ability to use time warp from the science console

When i was thinking and creating the idea for the wall, casting the wall from the science console is just a one time charge, like a power transfer. It has a set life and does not move from it's position (albeit that might change if we decode otherwise).

I dont want the wall to be used to break chases, however think about the size of the wall. The wall needs only be big enough to obscure around 80-90% of the battlecruiser's size, and it will do its job perfectly. You can still shoot around it if you will, but the majority of strikes will hit the wall before the bc in a standing battle. During chases, you only need to be off-center by a half bc length and you can get around the wall. Furthermore, whenever bc's are chasing, it always seems to me at least that the 2 bc's are basically on the edge of the two screens screaming and hauling towards the next wraparound to try and shake the pursuers, so there is time to dodge previously stated wall. More testing data on chasing to confirm, but i think that the wall would be fine.

Meanme wrote:When i was thinking and creating the idea for the wall, casting the wall from the science console is just a one time charge, like a power transfer. It has a set life and does not move from it's position (albeit that might change if we decode otherwise).

I dont want the wall to be used to break chases, however think about the size of the wall. The wall needs only be big enough to obscure around 80-90% of the battlecruiser's size, and it will do its job perfectly. You can still shoot around it if you will, but the majority of strikes will hit the wall before the bc in a standing battle. During chases, you only need to be off-center by a half bc length and you can get around the wall. Furthermore, whenever bc's are chasing, it always seems to me at least that the 2 bc's are basically on the edge of the two screens screaming and hauling towards the next wraparound to try and shake the pursuers, so there is time to dodge previously stated wall. More testing data on chasing to confirm, but i think that the wall would be fine.

Even assuming you dodge the wall, that is A LOT of energy lost turning with a battlecruiser. The turn rate on that thing is abysmal. Moreover, if there isn't distance like you say there is, the enemy team can simply opt to drop the barrier directly in front of the enemy battlecruiser.

well consider the wall an end to chasing unless you have kinetics and missiles and good communication with eachother, i dont know why people are having such a tough time with walls breaking chases, i like it, it will leave the team being chased hurt but able to try and scrap something together. (also the wall should have a price for deploying it, it has considerable amount of mass to it so that means $$ and energy to move the wall into space)

Red-Rocket wrote:well consider the wall an end to chasing unless you have kinetics and missiles and good communication with eachother, i dont know why people are having such a tough time with walls breaking chases, i like it, it will leave the team being chased hurt but able to try and scrap something together. (also the wall should have a price for deploying it, it has considerable amount of mass to it so that means $$ and energy to move the wall into space)

High speed chases often have people expending over 300 in engines, maybe even as high as 500.

You will almost never be using kinetics during a chase since you will need a fast projectile that pierces shields easily.

If someone drops an 800 HP obstacle behind them in the middle of a chase, you may be able to shave off 400 health before you hit it, but that would cost 2000 energy from Pentaburst. Following that you'd be ramming through it which is a considerable decrease in speed for a short period of time.

You can opt to go around it, but if this is as large as a BC you should consider it as if you're trying to circle one. Traveling in a circle is considerably slower than traveling in a line.

For an 800 HP blocker, I don't think I anyone could justify tossing out more than 4000 energy for use of the ability. Even at 4000 energy it technically becomes a waste of energy in stand up combat since broadsides will shred through more than half of it's HP for only 750 energy cost.

You could make it less, say 1500 energy, but that only draws back in favor of using it as a chase blocker since it doesn't cost much. Compared to the 3-5 seconds spent trying to bypass the thing, 900-2500 energy from engines alone in high speed chase, in addition to the extra energy that has to be expended to simply catch up...

I just find it to be an issue.

800 hp? i was planning on 1k + upgrades that will make it much more devestating, it will certainly make a difference in battle firefights and chases but thats what abilities are supposed to do, give you help against an enemy, this wall will also sheild an enemy because the wall will take damage both ways (unless we added phase freindly fire for a certain wall upgrade which would be fun), it will certainly affect the fight but it wont be the sole changer in a game, its just a wall. If it slows or completely stops a BC, fine, let it, we can CD it to a long wait and even force a team using it to pay minerals to deploy it. its a wall, not a thin cloth in space.

The problem with this thread is people are trying to nerf the ability before we have tested it out, alot of games (very much so with MOBA games) will put in something that could be OP because they want people to use it and everyone can agree on nerfing while only half can agree on buffing on an underpowered peice of gameplay.
the point is, i want to see just how badly it could ruin a fight (which i think it wont, i think it will increase the tension and duration of fights) and then go to happily nerf it.

Red-Rocket wrote:800 hp? i was planning on 1k + upgrades that will make it much more devestating, it will certainly make a difference in battle firefights and chases but thats what abilities are supposed to do, give you help against an enemy, this wall will also sheild an enemy because the wall will take damage both ways (unless we added phase freindly fire for a certain wall upgrade which would be fun), it will certainly affect the fight but it wont be the sole changer in a game, its just a wall. If it slows or completely stops a BC, fine, let it, we can CD it to a long wait and even force a team using it to pay minerals to deploy it. its a wall, not a thin cloth in space.

The problem with this thread is people are trying to nerf the ability before we have tested it out, alot of games (very much so with MOBA games) will put in something that could be OP because they want people to use it and everyone can agree on nerfing while only half can agree on buffing on an underpowered peice of gameplay.
the point is, i want to see just how badly it could ruin a fight (which i think it wont, i think it will increase the tension and duration of fights) and then go to happily nerf it.

While I get that, at the same time a certain amount of thought has to be put into it before hand. I honestly just don't understand why anyone would bother to use it in combat. Why wouldn't they just save it as an escape mechanism? What possible reason could they have to makes it better to use it to stop combat for 10 seconds -- no more than 1 or 2 if they boost around it -- while nobody's moving rather than to almost completely nullify the possibility of a chase?

The purpose seems faulty. That's why I'm questioning it. You completely misunderstand me -- I'm not saying 'Nerf It,' I'm saying 'For what it does I don't feel like it works.' You're asking people to invest 100y 100b 20g for an ability that, when used as it is supposed to be used, is instantly countered by Engine Boost. On the other hand, when used in ways it's not supposed to be used, it becomes stupidly broken as a chase breaker from what I can see.

I just don't think it fulfills the functionality you're seeking. You want it to do something I don't think it is capable of effectively doing. You want something that acts as a short term combat breaker or a tactical defense. I do not see it being used like that at all, seeing as it is instantly countered by one of the most core abilities in the game when it is used in such a way. Yes, you can drop a wall. If they boost around it, you can also do the same thing to switch positions I suppose. But then you lose the tactical advantage you were originally seeking to, say, defend Kermiculite. A two dimensional wall will have almost zero impact as a tactical defense in a game that is quite so open. Abilities like Forcefield for the Sentry worked because in standard maps there are choke points, or at the very least you can use the ability multiple times. You can't apply that same logic to a game with no walls or barriers.

Again, I am not trying to 'nerf it' before it's even made. I'm simply saying for what you are seeking, I don't think this works.

WhyteDragon wrote:

Red-Rocket wrote:800 hp? i was planning on 1k + upgrades that will make it much more devestating, it will certainly make a difference in battle firefights and chases but thats what abilities are supposed to do, give you help against an enemy, this wall will also sheild an enemy because the wall will take damage both ways (unless we added phase freindly fire for a certain wall upgrade which would be fun), it will certainly affect the fight but it wont be the sole changer in a game, its just a wall. If it slows or completely stops a BC, fine, let it, we can CD it to a long wait and even force a team using it to pay minerals to deploy it. its a wall, not a thin cloth in space.

The problem with this thread is people are trying to nerf the ability before we have tested it out, alot of games (very much so with MOBA games) will put in something that could be OP because they want people to use it and everyone can agree on nerfing while only half can agree on buffing on an underpowered peice of gameplay.
the point is, i want to see just how badly it could ruin a fight (which i think it wont, i think it will increase the tension and duration of fights) and then go to happily nerf it.

While I get that, at the same time a certain amount of thought has to be put into it before hand. I honestly just don't understand why anyone would bother to use it in combat. Why wouldn't they just save it as an escape mechanism? What possible reason could they have to makes it better to use it to stop combat for 10 seconds -- no more than 1 or 2 if they boost around it -- while nobody's moving rather than to almost completely nullify the possibility of a chase?

The purpose seems faulty. That's why I'm questioning it. You completely misunderstand me -- I'm not saying 'Nerf It,' I'm saying 'For what it does I don't feel like it works.' You're asking people to invest 100y 100b 20g for an ability that, when used as it is supposed to be used, is instantly countered by Engine Boost. On the other hand, when used in ways it's not supposed to be used, it becomes stupidly broken as a chase breaker from what I can see.

I just don't think it fulfills the functionality you're seeking. You want it to do something I don't think it is capable of effectively doing. You want something that acts as a short term combat breaker or a tactical defense. I do not see it being used like that at all, seeing as it is instantly countered by one of the most core abilities in the game when it is used in such a way. Yes, you can drop a wall. If they boost around it, you can also do the same thing to switch positions I suppose. But then you lose the tactical advantage you were originally seeking to, say, defend Kermiculite. A two dimensional wall will have almost zero impact as a tactical defense in a game that is quite so open. Abilities like Forcefield for the Sentry worked because in standard maps there are choke points, or at the very least you can use the ability multiple times. You can't apply that same logic to a game with no walls or barriers.

Again, I am not trying to 'nerf it' before it's even made. I'm simply saying for what you are seeking, I don't think this works.

Straight question. do most commanders try to boost into a standup fight between 2 battlecruisers?After that, the boost is used and the opposing team has a chance to use boost to either ram or run away, however there is a cooldown before it can be used again. Using boost around a wall requires prior planning.
Furthermore, to end the chase block, add something that reads how far away the wall gets from the battlecruiser. if the battlecruiser goes out of a certain range, blow up the wall. not for hp damage. This is supposed to be a wall. for all the points i placed earlier, this is not meant to change the way late games work.

Meanme wrote:

WhyteDragon wrote:

Red-Rocket wrote:800 hp? i was planning on 1k + upgrades that will make it much more devestating, it will certainly make a difference in battle firefights and chases but thats what abilities are supposed to do, give you help against an enemy, this wall will also sheild an enemy because the wall will take damage both ways (unless we added phase freindly fire for a certain wall upgrade which would be fun), it will certainly affect the fight but it wont be the sole changer in a game, its just a wall. If it slows or completely stops a BC, fine, let it, we can CD it to a long wait and even force a team using it to pay minerals to deploy it. its a wall, not a thin cloth in space.

The problem with this thread is people are trying to nerf the ability before we have tested it out, alot of games (very much so with MOBA games) will put in something that could be OP because they want people to use it and everyone can agree on nerfing while only half can agree on buffing on an underpowered peice of gameplay.
the point is, i want to see just how badly it could ruin a fight (which i think it wont, i think it will increase the tension and duration of fights) and then go to happily nerf it.

While I get that, at the same time a certain amount of thought has to be put into it before hand. I honestly just don't understand why anyone would bother to use it in combat. Why wouldn't they just save it as an escape mechanism? What possible reason could they have to makes it better to use it to stop combat for 10 seconds -- no more than 1 or 2 if they boost around it -- while nobody's moving rather than to almost completely nullify the possibility of a chase?

The purpose seems faulty. That's why I'm questioning it. You completely misunderstand me -- I'm not saying 'Nerf It,' I'm saying 'For what it does I don't feel like it works.' You're asking people to invest 100y 100b 20g for an ability that, when used as it is supposed to be used, is instantly countered by Engine Boost. On the other hand, when used in ways it's not supposed to be used, it becomes stupidly broken as a chase breaker from what I can see.

I just don't think it fulfills the functionality you're seeking. You want it to do something I don't think it is capable of effectively doing. You want something that acts as a short term combat breaker or a tactical defense. I do not see it being used like that at all, seeing as it is instantly countered by one of the most core abilities in the game when it is used in such a way. Yes, you can drop a wall. If they boost around it, you can also do the same thing to switch positions I suppose. But then you lose the tactical advantage you were originally seeking to, say, defend Kermiculite. A two dimensional wall will have almost zero impact as a tactical defense in a game that is quite so open. Abilities like Forcefield for the Sentry worked because in standard maps there are choke points, or at the very least you can use the ability multiple times. You can't apply that same logic to a game with no walls or barriers.

Again, I am not trying to 'nerf it' before it's even made. I'm simply saying for what you are seeking, I don't think this works.

Straight question. do most commanders try to boost into a standup fight between 2 battlecruisers?After that, the boost is used and the opposing team has a chance to use boost to either ram or run away, however there is a cooldown before it can be used again. Using boost around a wall requires prior planning.
Furthermore, to end the chase block, add something that reads how far away the wall gets from the battlecruiser. if the battlecruiser goes out of a certain range, blow up the wall. not for hp damage. This is supposed to be a wall. for all the points i placed earlier, this is not meant to change the way late games work.

I have never seen anyone ram to initiate combat. It's generally a bad idea since it damages both of you. As a finishing method, it serves given an HP advantage. Also, you proposed that this be a mechanic to help gain a strategic defense for particular parts of the map. So tell me -- why would you boost away from your strategic point on the map?

Furthermore, because we're having issues setting up movement in combat, boosting once really doesn't change much. Thirty seconds will easily pass before one team decides they want to boost out. Engine Boost will certainly be ready for a second usage.

The distance checker would probably work, given how high speed chases work. However, that doesn't change my opinion regarding it's practicality.

lets implement it and test it out and decide from there. sound fair?