Upgrades

[WhyteDragon]

... how can you counter play an indisputable reflects all incoming damage shield for eight seconds on the battlecruiser?

Or a wraith that simply deals damage faster because of a burst ability to pair with it's EMP? Hell, the wraith already performed hit and run strikes with lasers and side thrusting out. This just makes it more effective. I'm not saying you can't make strategies around it, but shit, you could already make strategies around a group of wraiths dive bombing a ship with a crap ton of laser fire already.

Again. I don't see the difference.

And frankly, I'm not sure I agree with your logic on the Collosai either. I don't necessarily disagree with saying that the upgrade period allows for a reaction time. I also don't necessarily think it's wrong to define a unit by it's upgrades as the end product is essentially the expectation. However, even if all of that is true it isstill simply adding potency to the units. I mean shit, the upgrade you just mentioned does nothing but add range, and you call Collosai worthless without it. It doesn't change the way you play the unit, it doesn't change the purpose of the unit, the only thing it does is increase it's range so that it can fight from a safer distance and create a larger buffer between itself and the enemies.

Rather than going front or back, you're argument is off on another chart that isn't even attached to the issue. Everything you've said is true. However, it does absolutely nothing to disprove anything I've said either. It's an argument simply for the sake of arguing since both are true.

Now, moving on to the 'counter play response' aspect.

A minelayer tries to swoop in using your conventional method of attack, 'fly drop mine and run.' It promptly gets slowed by a miner, and suddenly it's ability to easily flee from a target as you would normally would have after dropping a mine is all but gone. Given a nearby offensive craft, that could get very dangerous very fast given the minelayer starts with 200 health. Hell, even without the upgrade it may be possible under the right circumstances for a miner to simply hit Q, target the minelayer, hit T, and then make a kill on such a frail unit.

Solution? Keep a distance rather than get close. Get Ejection Ramp, the distance between you and the miner won't allow it to slow you for as long and won't give an offensive ship time to swoop in before you can escape the miner's beam.

Kinetic Barrage you already understand is a 'shield purchase counter' sort of concept. Straightforward.

The rest I will concede may not fit that criteria quite as easily. However, in the first place, scouting build strategies and upgrades in general is almost an impossible topic to begin with in Cruiser Command because of how it works. You can't really draw a parallel on that front simply because of how it currently works. If you added some method of obtaining that information easily then it would be a different story. However, with the current set up you simply can't.

Also, Cruiser Command doesn't as easily follow the 'rock paper scissors' format since each ship isn't a strict counter to the other really. Investment into any particular strategy can often be crushed by appropriate foresight already, though. Infiltration? Equip yourself in advance. Corvette rush? Get early broadsides, raise shields in advance, leave an AI on weapons... Wraith onslaught? BC roam with chomper, obtain a mass replicator and heavy power dock.

Again, 'scouting and reacting to strategies' is already a thing in Cruiser Command. I'm almost certain I've said it before even in this topic. However, the more we talk about this, the more I agree that the current level of available scouting may be inappropriate if we want to make it possible to react to particular upgrades.

[DumbMarine]

Or a wraith that simply deals damage faster because of a burst ability to pair with it's EMP? Hell, the wraith already performed hit and run strikes with lasers and side thrusting out. This just makes it more effective. I'm not saying you can't make strategies around it, but shit, you could already make strategies around a group of wraiths dive bombing a ship with a crap ton of laser fire already.

Uh, okay, so, there wouldn't be any new strategies emerging if we increased the damage of everything by 100x?

Rather than going front or back, you're argument is off on another chart that isn't even attached to the issue. Everything you've said is true. However, it does absolutely nothing to disprove anything I've said either. It's an argument simply for the sake of arguing since both are true.

I mean, I don't see how bringing up how research in SC2 affects units matters, since the research has an entirely different purpose in SC2 vs in CC.

A minelayer tries to swoop in using your conventional method of attack, 'fly drop mine and run.' It promptly gets slowed by a miner, and suddenly it's ability to easily flee from a target as you would normally would have after dropping a mine is all but gone. Given a nearby offensive craft, that could get very dangerous very fast given the minelayer starts with 200 health. Hell, even without the upgrade it may be possible under the right circumstances for a miner to simply hit Q, target the minelayer, hit T, and then make a kill on such a frail unit.

Uh, what? How much 'slow' were you imagining the miner's beam would have? The minelayer is a heavier ship than the corvette. If it can disrupt a minelayer's ability to escape it could probably paralyze a wraith.

[Meanme]

Or a wraith that simply deals damage faster because of a burst ability to pair with it's EMP? Hell, the wraith already performed hit and run strikes with lasers and side thrusting out. This just makes it more effective. I'm not saying you can't make strategies around it, but shit, you could already make strategies around a group of wraiths dive bombing a ship with a crap ton of laser fire already.

Uh, okay, so, there wouldn't be any new strategies emerging if we increased the damage of everything by 100x?

At that rate all we would do is have a race to the spammiest ship and go from there. stops being called C.C and becomes miner spammer is us.

Rather than going front or back, you're argument is off on another chart that isn't even attached to the issue. Everything you've said is true. However, it does absolutely nothing to disprove anything I've said either. It's an argument simply for the sake of arguing since both are true.

I mean, I don't see how bringing up how research in SC2 affects units matters, since the research has an entirely different purpose in SC2 vs in CC.

Comparing SC2 and C.C is like comparing two completely different games and trying to say that they are the same. Yes, cruiser command is created and run using the starcraft engine, however all the work / balancing / coding is done by yours truly, Siretu. You just cant compare the two as such. I understand where both of you are coming from, whyte and marine, but this isnt the solution.

A minelayer tries to swoop in using your conventional method of attack, 'fly drop mine and run.' It promptly gets slowed by a miner, and suddenly it's ability to easily flee from a target as you would normally would have after dropping a mine is all but gone. Given a nearby offensive craft, that could get very dangerous very fast given the minelayer starts with 200 health. Hell, even without the upgrade it may be possible under the right circumstances for a miner to simply hit Q, target the minelayer, hit T, and then make a kill on such a frail unit.

Uh, what? How much 'slow' were you imagining the miner's beam would have? The minelayer is a heavier ship than the corvette. If it can disrupt a minelayer's ability to escape it could probably paralyze a wraith.

This depends completely on appropriate upgrades made at this point, but it does leave a couple questions. An experienced miner can kill combat units, and also an experienced combat pilot can riposte and chew through miners. It would come down to individual skill at that time, however I personally dont believe that we need to implement this slowing field.