Cruiser Command

I like the wraith combat. I think the recent patch makes it even better and large-scale(4-5 ships) wraith battles can be very fun.

However, I feel like there's a pretty large problem with the wraith combat currently. The problem I see is mainly with the user experience of new wraith pilots. It is not as big of a deal for more experienced wraith pilots.

The problem: In a situation in wraith vs wraith and both pilots are inexperienced, it does not feel very rewarding. Combat is supposed to be satisfying. Even if you're not very good and you might get crushed if you play against someone more experienced, it's supposed to feel nice. I don't think this is the case for new players.

Imagine two players on opposing teams with a wraith each. They have 10-15 reputation and they're about to start fighting. How is the fight going to look? I'd say probably something like: Both ships charge straight for eachother, firing their weapons, connecting and ramming each other until one dies. They might try to use side boosts occasionally, but overall not very successfully. One of them might try to run away, but will then run straight away and die soon from the last shots.

Is this fun? I don't think so.

As I said, this is not as much of a problem for experienced players since they're a lot better at navigating their ships and are able to strafe properly around and do something nice and it can feel satisfying.

Please note that I am not trying to change the dynamic between experienced players and new players. Experienced players should still dominate new players easily, I think.

So that is the problem I see. How do we fix it?

I think we need to do a combination of some of the following:
* Make wraith battles less about ramming at the lower levels by making navigating the wraith easier.
* Make the wraith feel more powerful. Think "BANG BANG" instead of "pew pew". This would make players feel more epic and instead of thinking: "Oh, I died. I didn't manage to do anything" to think "Oh, that was great. I almost had him and did lots of explosions and sounds.

How do we accomplish this?

Wraith currently have lower friction(yes, friction in space, don't argue) than the other ships. This make them more... slippery in space. If you turn, it takes longer until you start going the other way. I am thinking of experimenting which changing this value.

We also discussed some different navigation solutions in skype such as allowing the wraith to go backwards by having the throttle go to negative or having a backwards thrust. The problems with these is that backwards throttle is different from all other ships and if players start out with the wraith, they will be confused when they try out other ships. Backwards thrust might not help since it's even more to think of and side boosts aren't really working very well for new players.

Another thing I'm thinking of is changing the wraith weapon. Mostly by changing the visuals and audio to make it feel more powerful but I also thought of changing the projectile speed. The wraith projectiles is very slow imo which is weird since the wraith is a fast and agile ship with a rather small weapon. I think some of you have played the star wars space battle custom map on SC2 where the ship follows the mouse. Imagine if your projectiles in that game were as slow as the wraith projectile. It would definitely feel less satisfying.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

I agree that changing how wraith battles goes is the way to attract more players, unlike the weapon console...


But making the ship more maneuverable wouldn't help it much. they would still head straight and ram each other to death on their first fight. I really think that dodging comes with experience. 99% of newbies are retarded. we just have to be patient with them

the Bang bang instead of Pew Pew is instawin.

Alright, so long as this is being brought up I'm going to mention something very key right off the bat:

I think we need to have a serious look at throttle, particularly making a 'max throttle' button. To either Z, Q, or some other hotkey. I have nothing against the current system of WS to gain much more precise speeds, but frankly it's of no help new players unfamiliar to the system. Moreover, lets be honest, how often do you really want to move at some speed other than 100% or 0%? If it was possible, I think it would be far better to have "W" be 'maximum speed,' "S" as 'cut throttle,' and have two other buttons as 'fine adjustments.' However, knowing that the limitations of the keyboard do not easily allow this, (I.E. Where would it go for wraith?) I understand this is a bit of an unreasonable request at the same time.

Now, here's where it gets even more tricky. Yes, I was the one who brought up 'reverse' throttle to begin with. I also think wraiths should be able to achieve it. If one player is moving forward, that's fine! You can move back, admittedly maybe only half as fast as he's approaching, (Say throttle ranges from 100% to -50%.) but it allows you to have a way to create some distance without turning around outright. I get that it's different flying mechanics than other ships, but it's simpler when they downgrade. You're giving them the 'super package' and then introducing them to the 'regular' afterwards. If it doesn't have it, they won't say 'wait, so how does this work?' They'll say 'okay, so it's like the wraith but without this.' However, if all of that simply won't do it for you in the end, you could also introduce a "Rear Thruster" instead.

What would all of this together mean for hotkeys? Probably something like this:

W: Max Speed
S: Neutral
X: Max Reverse (Or) Rear Thrust
A: Side Thrust Left
D: Side Thrust Right
Q: Adjust Speed Up
Z: Adjust Speed Down
R: Radar Ping
F: Fire
E: EMP Missile
C: Dock

And that's kinda bulky as shit. So I'm not sure I buy it.

Alright, you want a wraith that goes 'BANG!'? Then here is my first suggestion: projectiles possess momentum. Maybe not a large amount of it, but some. Not only can you see your projectiles knocking people around, but it also pushes people away from each other in the midst of wraith combat, which goes back to the 'ramming contest' concept. If that won't do it for you, however, I would simply revert to making some superior animation than the measly 'bloop' when a wraith projectile hits something. It is rather dull.

I will also agree that wraith projectiles, and a bunch other projectiles, are very slow. Destroyer is acceptable since you're shooting five giant balls of super death which deal absurdly stupid damage. Corvette has an upgrade that makes it's projectiles faster, plus it shoots a whooping five. Wraith? Just... slow projectiles.

just add to the tutorial wraith combat, get to a point where a BC is firing (very slow then up to semi fast) missiles, disable the acceleration and force them to use thrusts to dodge missiles, i think that could indirectly teach them on dodging other things like destroyer shots and other wraiths

Forget about the new guys. I don't even have fun wraithing anymore unless I have my bro at my wingtip, and some decent upgrades to keep up with the miners.

That's because you're using the new wraith, sky! Use the old one, it now comes in the form of a minelayer with ionic.

Sky wrote:Forget about the new guys. I don't even have fun wraithing anymore unless I have my bro at my wingtip, and some decent upgrades to keep up with the miners.

Is that cause of the 3 wraiths or because of the wraith tweaks? Or something else?

DumbMarine wrote:

Sky wrote:Forget about the new guys. I don't even have fun wraithing anymore unless I have my bro at my wingtip, and some decent upgrades to keep up with the miners.

Is that cause of the 3 wraiths or because of the wraith tweaks? Or something else?

It's to my understanding Sky is primarily upset about the EMP shot.

WhyteDragon wrote:It's to my understanding Sky is primarily upset about the EMP shot.

No, that's not what has been bugging me. I don't mind the fact that EMP is only useful in locking Turbo down. That is what EMP is for anyway.

DumbMarine wrote:Is that cause of the 3 wraiths or because of the wraith tweaks? Or something else?

Yes, it is because I'm so weak, I'd rather fly around in a tin can for protection then the wraith, and my wraith's damage output is laughable. I know the wraith is now meant to fly in a group of three, but most of the time I can't count on the other wraiths. They generally ignore what I have to say and go die. The only time I can count on the other guy is when he's an advanced player or my own brother. So I'm nerfed and flying solo most of the time.

zakhennahr wrote:That's because you're using the new wraith, sky! Use the old one, it now comes in the form of a minelayer with ionic.

You're right, I should pick up another ship.

Sky wrote:
Yes, it is because I'm so weak, I'd rather fly around in a tin can for protection then the wraith, and my wraith's damage output is laughable. I know the wraith is now meant to fly in a group of three, but most of the time I can't count on the other wraiths. They generally ignore what I have to say and go die. The only time I can count on the other guy is when he's an advanced player or my own brother. So I'm nerfed and flying solo most of the time.

Hmm, I'm sad to hear that. That's not what I intended with the new wraith patch.

In my opinion, killing miners is kind of hard right now since your damage and hp is low. Sky, what do you think about increasing the damage back up to what it was before, boosting health a bit and making the projectiles faster?