Back to Pubbing!

[HumanLisk]

With CCR and CCZerg becoming less active, we've lost a huge player base and it's becoming more and more difficult to get a lobby. Whether its finals or bnet issues creating a lack of player base, lets start pubbing more and teaching new players, getting them interested in this game again! Let's put players, who've never played before or have only mined on consoles they've never even touched.

I'd like to ask that the veterans of this game please allow new players to have a go at certain stations and ships to encourage their interest in this game. Sometimes, its not about winning or losing.

I've forgotten how much fun it is to teach a new player and stick them on a console they've never been on and just have them go nuts! Like that recent video post Zak made: http://cruisercommand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=564
I mean come on! It doesn't get any better than that, destroying the enemy BC via ramming with a Destroyer??
That was freaking Hilarious! (Ok, so further inspection I don't think the Destroyer rammed the BC to death, but still freaking funny!)

Let's get out there and start rebuilding this awesome Community!

Special thanks to InCC, Neph / the Cookie clan, and everyone else for helping keep this game alive!

[Moleman]

I agree with you. Bonus: you might also find a possible new clan-member.

[GUNdALF]

Yeah I really agree with you! That's what inCC is already doing at the moment - But because of some time issues (study/work - not all of us have full free time like degra :O) I sadly must say we are doing this mostly on EU for the moment. (NA is empty when we are playing because of timzones.. )

[WhyteDragon]

TL;DR: Maybe use achievements as a method of teaching new players?

I think more than anything is the issue of introducing new players into the game itself. Most people come in with the mind set of blowing shit up, taking out wraiths/corvettes and doing man fights - shortly after they often get put out on miners or on refining and decide 'fuck that.'

I will say, I love CC for what it is. It's an intensive teamwork game that relies heavily upon coordination and functionality. However, with that said, I have to say that 87.5% of the initial roles aren't ones that people come in expecting to like/enjoy and that 12.5% wraith will almost never be given to them. The later aspects of the game can be awesome, but first impressions often make or break the game.

So after all that ranting, let me clarify what I'm getting at: new players often don't get to understand the potential of the game since they're experiencing the less interesting aspects of it initially. This is like a sort of wall that has been set up that you have to overcome in order to find interest. Furthermore, the complexity and depth of the game are also a bit dwarfing. Most people are joining games expecting quick fast paced action. In other words, things may not be intuitive enough for most players and most are unable to understand the true depth of the game either because everybody else is so far ahead of them or because nobody has enough experience to show them.

Basically,
Community % at High Tier: 60%
Community % at Medium Tier: 10%
Community % at Low Tier: 25%

... that kind of situation. People who stay end up staying for the long haul and typically get pampered by more experienced players and pushed up into higher tier play through tutelage. And this draws back to the previous point, this is a game that most people have to be taught.

Make no mistake, I love Cruiser Command for what it is. It requires a higher level of thinking that appeals to me since it ends up being quite open ended while not relying solely upon one player's skill level. But I think the major issue is finding a way to break players through that initial wall of complexity they find.

I know achievements were touched up upon in another topic. People love acknowledgement for their skill level through the fulfillment of difficult tasks. However, more than that, have you also considered that it could be used as a teaching tool for new players? I.E.:

-------------

Captain Achievements - Complete All for 5 Reputation: (Unlocks at 40 Reputation)
Scientist - Research something on the Upgrade Console.
Scope Down! - Ping the map using the Navigation Console.
Support the Line - Transfer energy to a small ship.
Power Conservationist - Change power such that you produce more than 100GW.

Wraith Achievements - Complete All for 5 Reputation: (Unlocks at 20 Reputation)
Pilot - Launch a Wraith from the hanger.
Strike the Line - Make a successful miner kill.
Purple Heart - Dock your wraith with less than 50% life remaining.
Veteran - Make a successful Wraith kill.

Miner Achievements - Complete All for 5 Reputation: (Unlocks at 0 Reputation)
Worker - Launch a Miner from the hanger.
'Roid Rage! - Collect 10 Veldite, Chalcorium, and Pyromanite from floating asteroids.
Capitalist - Send back a cargo drone.
Rare Mineral Collector - Collect 10 Kermiculite.

Ensign Achievements - Complete All for 5 Reputation: (Unlocks at 5 Reputation)
Resource Extractor - Refine minerals in the refinery.
Maintenance Cadet - Produce repair kits on the construction console.
Maintenance Officer - Use a repair kit to remove debris from your battlecruiser.

-----------------

You could have them work as a chain, I.E. when you unlock a '[Role] Achievement' path it'll give you the message regarding your next achievement expected.

Basically, a player joins for the first time. When the game starts, the first thing he sees is a little bubble saying
Next Achievement - Miner, Worker
Launch a Miner from the hanger.
Assuming he follows suit, he figures out how to get down there and launches the miner. Huzzah! First achievement is highlighted boldly.
Next Achievement - Miner, 'Roid Rage!
Collect 10 Veldite, Chalcorium, and Pyromanite from floating asteroids.
... and so on.

[Siretu]

How is the EU community atm?

Edit: Also, I did consider achievements at one point but felt that the game wasn't really mature for it at that time. I will definitely consider it again now and it's not hard to implement since there's already great achievement libraries out there.

[Corinthian]

HumanLisk, well said.

WhyteDragon, I think you have a wonderful idea.
I would actually enjoy if Reputation, and thus Skins, were gained by Achievements such as you listed.


(However, I would still like if skins could be used to determine a players Specialty Role choice, but I am not sure how it could work both ways.)
http://cruisercommand.com/forum/viewtop ... 7&start=10

I am still planning on refining (balancing) the Specialty Roles. I know it would make the game more complex, but it would further enhance, and highlight for new players, the cooperative element of the game.

[Degra]

How is the EU community atm?

Edit: Also, I did consider achievements at one point but felt that the game wasn't really mature for it at that time. I will definitely consider it again now and it's not hard to implement since there's already great achievement libraries out there.

About 80% of the active >50 rep players are members of inCC.
We still have only 8 members.
That says it all.

Problem is that every time the community shrinks it loses a lot of its veterans, and in EU's case too many left that it never really started growing again.
You can still see sometimes some 6v6 going with some luck, but well most of it will be 0 rep players.
The players don't stay long enough and that's an issue for the veterans (inCC) as it makes explaining the game so tedious, since chances are so high that they will just quit playing CC right after their first game.

[Siretu]

Oh and also, I want to point out that I agree completely and wholeheartedly with what WhyteDragon wrote.

The BIGGEST problem I feel like we have right now is that the game isn't designed to show new players why it's fun. I feel like this is a big FUNDAMENTAL problem with the map. Achievement are great, and I might implement them soon, but they're not the solution. Solving the problem requires a big change in how the game works, I think.

I think this is something that we have to do a lot of thinking on and come up with a way to solve, if we ever want Cruiser Command to become more popular than it's ever become before.

Maybe focus more on wraith combat? Make it more of a several wraiths vs several wraiths? You could give three AIs all the time and have them be the main source of income. An experienced player could take it and focus the mineral income and get the kerm while the new players take wraiths. We then lower the wraith price by a decent bit.

This way, we increase the direct "fun" of the early game, by adding more action and make it more small ship-focused in the beginning. Also, if a new player doesn't understand how to play, you're not losing out on mineral income but rather just some firepower, which isn't a huge deal since you can just play defensively instead. Same thing if the new player dies: You're losing some small firepower and not potential income.

I know the AI miners aren't perfect, but they're still better than the average new player, even if that new player listens and reads the introduction. So maybe we should shift the meta-game towards more AI miners and more ship combat? Potentially starting with more wraiths as well? Maybe increasing the hangar capacity to allow for this?

When the BCs finally engage, the new players can feel like they're actually contributing since they can sit in a wraith and fire on the BC and feel super cool trying to dodge lasers and stuff. This is instead of having them sit in a miner on the other side of the map and suddenly the game ends and they had no idea what happened.

After the new player has had his/her share of action, (s)he'll hopefully be interested in the other aspects of the game. What can you do inside the BC? What was all that about? Oh, you can use different consoles? Ah, this one controls weapons!

I might be optimistic, but this is how I feel like it could work.

[WhyteDragon]

I have mixed feelings about such a metagame change, but I will post as if these changes were to occur and speak my part on what I believe would have to be altered.

I know the AI miners aren't perfect, but they're still better than the average new player, even if that new player listens and reads the introduction. So maybe we should shift the meta-game towards more AI miners and more ship combat? Potentially starting with more wraiths as well? Maybe increasing the hangar capacity to allow for this?

I just want to quickly point out that if you do make a change like this, you will have to heavily change either wraith or miners. It will be too easy to just swoop in with 3 wraiths, chain EMPs, and have 3 people shoot 15 damage pewpews for an easy kill.

If we do go with changing the metagame, I think this idea has a lot of potential. Lets face it -- once the wraith goes down, you're immediately with your back against the wall when fighting the other team. You can buy another wraith, but that puts you in a situation where you're behind in economy and the other wraith will have more upgrades -- that means you have to hope your miners don't mess up. Providing extra wraiths means you're not out of the game even if you lose one.

Combat ships are always going to be the most fun thing. Flying around in combat ships shooting people will always be awesome. The BC is simply a bigger Combat Ship that requires a lot more hands to move. Also, changing it so that you possess the AI for miners to run out and act also sets it up in such a way that you can rotate AIs around the ship afterwards to open up space for larger Small Ship Strategies, which I really like. The first issue I see, however... BC rushing is going to be very common. I think people will learn to work around it with the addition of all these extra wraiths, but just as forewarning.

What would the new metagame look like?
If you're going to do this, I easily foresee a corvette and three wraiths running around by example. What I do doubt is the Corvette being an aggressive player - it will likely end up being a defensive player chasing off wraiths. And I like that concept. One thing I will worry about is how all these small ships will work with the pinging, but we can worry about that later.

What kind of changes would you expect for a wraith?
To be honest, if you're going to expect three wraiths to be out it should be set up so that under upgraded circumstances a solowraith should have a very hard time even thinking about making a miner kill. Wraiths should have to work together in order to make a hunt occur. I suggest doing that by reducing base damage to 10, the effectiveness of EMPs, and maybe even dropping wraith hull a bit. 250 perhaps? In turn, this also offers a plus of another great potential -- reducing the cost of a wraith. Normally wraiths are too expensive to justify their repurchase. This offers the possibility to change that up a bit instead.

How do we reorganize the hanger?
If you plan to do this, I would highly suggest starting with 3 miners, 3 wraiths, and 1 corvette. In terms of space, I would highly recommend either implementing a 'scrap ship' mechanic to remove a ship from the hanger to make space for a new one or increasing hanger space to 14 in order to provide a nice blend of miners, offensive ships, chompers, and defensive ships. And maybe an infiltrator.

How many AI would you start with?
I think three is a nice number. You can either choose to send them all out mining, send two out and have one refine and keep an experienced miner out to try and snag ez kerm, or you could even keep them all on the BC doing energy transfers, weapon console, and refining while supporting player miners. You could even consider popping out a simple Corvette AI that'll respond to wraith threats and protect miners.

[zakhennahr]

Something else could be improving the tutorial or making it a quick, two to five minute deal during the intro of the game, which puts the players in the action. Something along the lines of:

"Quick, your team needs minerals! Run to the ping, and select a Miner ship, and launch it." "Captain: Good job, marine. Now hit X to stop moving. Then, mine an asteroid with E." After they mine 20 or so minerals, "Captain: *nav ping* Quick! Dock and take out the wraith, there is an enemy ship nearby!" "Once you launch it, aim by right-clicking and fire with F until the enemy ship is dead!"

Just to whet the new player's appetite for the action that this game has. Then they can be excited about CC and will know there are many different roles. Just tossing out the idea, however.