wall / barrier idea for the science console

[Meanme]

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I like that idea of a wall. A physical wall that is enacted between the two battlecruisers where no firepower can get through. you either have to destroy the wall or go around it. I'm against physical nerfs against BC's and smallships, but an ability that creates a line-like barrier large enough to block a bc's line of fire for both teams can be put into tactical use, both for fleeing bc's and bc's trying to camp a kerm spawn. The wall either can have a cooldown with or without invulnerability or high hp, but is imobile. I'm not talking about a massive wall that streches the screen though, just one large enough to block bc/bc fire and/or used to bounce bc's off course in a fleeing situation.

And instead of using it through the weapons console, it could be used from the science console. Sorry, off topic for weapons console but thought it could be a good idea.

Just reposting this here to be more ontopic. For ideas on how to implement this, I was thinking about having to purchase the wall through upgrades for the science console. Just a one time purchase, with no upgrading the wall hp.

The wall itself can have 800 hp, with no shields, so kinetics will be more powerful against it. It is an immobile object, and has a 15 second life before it disappears. Small ships and battlecruisers can ram the wall, but they would bounce back, like a big asteroid.

For cost, how about 100 vel, 100 chor, and 15 kerm; with casting the wall coming from energy from the main capacitor.
The reasoning behind the kermulite resource is because this is mainly an oppurtunity research and is not meant for early game, or at least before the first kerm spawn. Good captains can use this to throw this up during an engagement for roughly 3 seconds on uninterrupted shield charging, both sides. This can also help fleeing bc's by throwing up a barrier if the enemy bc is right behind chasing, causing some minor confusion with the navigator. This also makes more communication between captain, weapons, and science, for no communication can lead to loss of unnecessary energy. Last and not least, if your lucky, you can try and block an infiltrator for kicks
Obviously, a computer could not easily throw up this wall, so this could potentially put another human in a previously ai used position, with the chance of having a human on weapons as well to keep from crashing their own wall down.

Please, comments and questions. I like this wall idea.

[Karl913]

Upgrades for Mr. Wall! Maybe 3 different choice upgrades, which have absolutely no visual change from each other so the enemy can't give off super easy counters, and can allow the player using them to counter the enemy player based on what he is using.

The first would be 'mirror' style wall, which reflect lasers entirely, although would be vulnerable to missiles.
The other would act as a point defense drone to missiles, but would be vulnerable to lasers.
The third would make it so any ramming into them would be found.. Unsatisfactory, launching anything ramming into them ~10x further/harder.

[WhyteDragon]

Alright, here is the first reason I do not like this wall concept as you have described it:

Team 1 is fleeing from Team 2. They do not want to engage, yet Team 2 is chasing relentlessly.

Team 1 drops a wall.

Team 2 immediately rams in the wall -- you will not be able to dodge during a high speed chase -- and not only takes an absurdly enormous drop to speed since it is an entirely elastic collision as you have described it, but also takes somewhere between 200-800 damage due to ramming. It will not be possible to chase a team with this upgrade. It simply will not.

Back when I was coming up with console ideas, before I knew Siretu didn't want more purchasable consoles, I suggested a 'Counter-Measure Console' that could shoot flak with minimal health. The reason I felt this worked despite a chase situation was because when an object dies from a collision, it doesn't knock a unit back. Since this was a concept built upon the idea of a lot of small objects that soaked up minimal damage, it would be used as a skill shot to prevent large attacks such as the Yamato Cannon or Missiles. If the 'wall' ability took a route closer to that though, it would no longer be able to sustain large amounts of fire since it's design is fundamentally different.

The moment you make a wall 'a giant block,' it becomes something you can throw at the enemy BC in a chase that deals damage and reduces speed to an absurd degree. The moment you make it 'a field of weak materials,' you need to have tens of the damn things to do the effect properly, and it will still be to a minimal effect since Pentaburst shoots 10 per attack on top of broadside's 5 shots per attack. Moreover, Kinetics doesn't work well against it due to the number of projectiles launched by comparison.

Nothing against walls, but I think the only feasible type we could apply was a 'one way shields that only blocks weapon projectiles.' Such a thing doesn't interfere with movement, which we want more of rather than less, yet blocks projectiles completely and wholly with a singular health pool. So you'd be asking for a 'second shield barrier.' Depending on how it was applied, maybe it would work. Maybe it wouldn't. It's difficult to say in my opinion.

[Red-Rocket]

we could modify the tractor beam that will push the wall to the side or modify kinetics to do extra damage to walls only so that they can be a counter, also it would be fun with wall upgrades, small self-replicating walls, tactical walls that fire projectiles, walls that reflect lazers back at enemies, or just simply big meaty walls

[Meanme]

Alright, here is the first reason I do not like this wall concept as you have described it:

Team 1 is fleeing from Team 2. They do not want to engage, yet Team 2 is chasing relentlessly.

Team 1 drops a wall.

Team 2 immediately rams in the wall -- you will not be able to dodge during a high speed chase -- and not only takes an absurdly enormous drop to speed since it is an entirely elastic collision as you have described it, but also takes somewhere between 200-800 damage due to ramming. It will not be possible to chase a team with this upgrade. It simply will not.

yes, this would make it problematic, if the bc was right behind the other bc. like a line. however, this is still a small barrier, barely enough to cover the bc, if that. it is nothing more than an obstacle, a forced obstacle. we can put physics on it if you want, ramming it out of the way and stuff. Just slower physics, so weapon fire doent move it much.

[Caladbolg]

I believe the wall should remain an escape mechanism, not an offensive one.

[WhyteDragon]

Alright, here is the first reason I do not like this wall concept as you have described it:

Team 1 is fleeing from Team 2. They do not want to engage, yet Team 2 is chasing relentlessly.

Team 1 drops a wall.

Team 2 immediately rams in the wall -- you will not be able to dodge during a high speed chase -- and not only takes an absurdly enormous drop to speed since it is an entirely elastic collision as you have described it, but also takes somewhere between 200-800 damage due to ramming. It will not be possible to chase a team with this upgrade. It simply will not.

yes, this would make it problematic, if the bc was right behind the other bc. like a line. however, this is still a small barrier, barely enough to cover the bc, if that. it is nothing more than an obstacle, a forced obstacle. we can put physics on it if you want, ramming it out of the way and stuff. Just slower physics, so weapon fire doent move it much.

In a chase, one BC is always behind the other BC in a line if the leading BC is moving straight. xD That's pretty much always what it is.

Anyhow, what I'm saying is that by the current cruiser command scheme, if you can shoot it you can usually run into it. However, for this to be plausible at all and not chase-breaking, objects other than weapon fire would have to move through it freely. So that would mean I'm against physics, not for it.

So basically what I said before already.

[Caladbolg]

Before a wall that completly blocks the chasing team appear, I'd much rather see Air resistance cones. Basically, the ship in front has full air resistance, while the ship behind flies in the air draft and gain a little velocity/energy economy. Like birds.


NOW, before someone mention that there is no air resistance in space, I'd like to point out that going too fast causes damage to BC due to velocity. That's air resistance baby.

And yes this is a complex idea to add, and no I don't actually want it. The wall should at best slow down the enemy BC for a few M/S (20 maybe?) in a chase. more than that would just friggin help mousing.


The idea of the wall would be for it to be counter rush. say the enemy team surprises you and suddenly appear right next to your BC. you put up the wall to buy you some time to get engines up or shields. I'm thinking that a fast BC should just completly shatter the wall, a slow one maybe bounce off it. The goal of it isn't to stop the BC but the firepower.



at least, that's how I see it.



EDIT: I might be incoherent there... it happens.

[WhyteDragon]

Before a wall that completly blocks the chasing team appear, I'd much rather see Air resistance cones. Basically, the ship in front has full air resistance, while the ship behind flies in the air draft and gain a little velocity/energy economy. Like birds.


NOW, before someone mention that there is no air resistance in space, I'd like to point out that going too fast causes damage to BC due to velocity. That's air resistance baby.

And yes this is a complex idea to add, and no I don't actually want it. The wall should at best slow down the enemy BC for a few M/S (20 maybe?) in a chase. more than that would just friggin help mousing.


The idea of the wall would be for it to be counter rush. say the enemy team surprises you and suddenly appear right next to your BC. you put up the wall to buy you some time to get engines up or shields. I'm thinking that a fast BC should just completly shatter the wall, a slow one maybe bounce off it. The goal of it isn't to stop the BC but the firepower.



at least, that's how I see it.



EDIT: I might be incoherent there... it happens.

The closest explanation I could make for ship damage through speed would be that the actual supports that hold the ship together break apart under the stress. However, this occurs through acceleration rather than velocity, so that doesn't quite buy it.

Moving on from pointless semantics, the concept of a kinetic barrier actually does seem interesting. If projectiles in general moved more slowly, it would allow small ships to more easily navigate battlecruiser fire during combat and create worth in battlecruisers attempting to actually dodge incoming fire. Dodging right now is a silly concept due to the relative speeds of both battlecruisers. At best, most people expect to dodge 1-2 broadside shots when moving.

An ability to alter the speed of projectiles would help amend that. It would put worth in having, say, 200 engines such that you could move a lot in combat to try and juke out shots. It would give worth to the throttle function on navigation mid combat in that it would allow the battlecruiser to quickly adjust speeds to navigate a field of fire, and it would give huge benefit to the Inertial Nullifier on navigation to make a very speedy turn to avoid a big barrage.

And if it works in making people move, it only gets more complex. Weapons have a moving target to work with and have to try and predict the opponent to move. They may even have to adjust between Penta, Triple, and Single burst in order to provide a strong enough degree of fire that the opposing team would still find value in holding up engines rather than spend it all on Penta and miss 50% of the shots. On top of movement, navigation would have to simultaneously navigate a field of fire while firing broadsides -- possibly switching back and forth between both sides rather than moving in a uniform circle.

Rather than a wall, a kinetic dampening field actually seems a lot more interesting to me to be honest. I feel like the moment projectiles become slow enough to actually dodge, you give worth to making the battlecruiser actually able to move. The main question would then become how to apply it. Is it a toggleable effect on science that consumes energy while active? Does it only affect enemy projectiles, not your own? In what area of effect is it applied? What kind of repercussions would it have on chasing?

Still, I can't help but like the idea.

[Siretu]

NOW, before someone mention that there is no air resistance in space, I'd like to point out that going too fast causes damage to BC due to velocity. That's air resistance baby.

I see it as pushing the engine too hard, making the ship fall apart due to the engine being pushed too hard.