Destroyer revamp

[Siretu]

We want to make the Destroyer more fun to play. Come with suggestions for new abilities, upgrades and mechanics to make it more interesting than just pressing Q.

I know Dreadnought wanted proc-based weapons.

[Dreadnought]

I know Dreadnought wanted proc-based weapons.

What hes talking about is i wanted....

Whenever a quantum bombardment projectile hits a target, it has a 10% chance to proc (for those who dont know what a proc is, its a charge given to another weapon, sometimes modifying it or just simply the ability to use it) the proc ability can be fired instantly and moves considerably fast and does a lot of damage but no tracking abilities. The proc can be stored up to 3 charges, and can be used whenever/instantly whenever quantum bombardment procs it. It will do 300 damage each but costs 750 energy. It will be useful for getting in those "bursts" moments when in a BC v BC fight, if you store up to 3 procs and combine them with bombardment it will do a hilarious amount of damage ^^
Docking will remove the charges. So be wize when storing them up, and dont use as soon as possible as they are 750 energy, and save for those "big" damage moments

[WhyteDragon]

I know Dreadnought wanted proc-based weapons.

What hes talking about is i wanted....

Whenever a quantum bombardment projectile hits a target, it has a 10% chance to proc (for those who dont know what a proc is, its a charge given to another weapon, sometimes modifying it or just simply the ability to use it) the proc ability can be fired instantly and moves considerably fast and does a lot of damage but no tracking abilities. The proc can be stored up to 3 charges, and can be used whenever/instantly whenever quantum bombardment procs it. It will do 300 damage each but costs 750 energy. It will be useful for getting in those "bursts" moments when in a BC v BC fight, if you store up to 3 procs and combine them with bombardment it will do a hilarious amount of damage ^^
Docking will remove the charges. So be wize when storing them up, and dont use as soon as possible as they are 750 energy, and save for those "big" damage moments

... is this really 'more fun' though?

It doesn't really change much about how you play the destroyer -- point and shoot. Except now you press 1 extra button occasionally for a little extra damage while expending a bit more energy. It doesn't... really solve anything or add anything other than 'more power.'

Rather, if you want to make the destroyer more fun I think you need to pay closer attention to its key points, such as its bulky and powerful nature.

... here would be my suggestion.

Destroyer

Main Weapon - Quantum Bombardment
For 200 energy, the destroyer takes a 1.5 second warm up period in order to charge its Quantum Bombardment. If possible, this warm up phase would have some form of visual feedback, as a sort of 'warning light.' After its warm up period, the Destroyer would then begin to fire projectiles every 0.2 seconds, each shot dealing 50 damage, while consuming 100 energy a second. Toggling the ability off sets it on cooldown for 3 seconds.

Secondary Weapon - Swat Cannon
For 50 energy, the destroyer can fire a three projectile burst in a 20 degree cone. This is done in a similar manner to the Wraith EMP, and can be fired in any direction rather than just from the front. Each projectile deals 20 damage. However, these projectiles wield a relatively short range and the ability wields a cooldown of two seconds.

Utility Aspect - Concussive Blast
For 400 energy, the destroyer can emit a powerful kinetic blast that exerts a significant force upon all nearby enemy small ships, pushing them away and dealing 50 damage. This wields a cooldown of thirty seconds.

-------------------------------

Let me briefly explain why I believe the above changes are good.

For quantum bombardment, it creates a more 'persistent threat' for the destroyer. Rather than 'blowing its load' and then waiting for ten seconds to blow another, it allows it to consistently apply a barrage of fire that threatens an opponent. This also gives a lot more significance to 'interruption play' during battlecruiser fights, as attacking the destroyer with a small ship may dissuade it from its focal fire in order to better deal with the nuisance. Outside of battlecruiser engagements, it also gives it a little more reliable use, but makes it a little less 'instantly deadly' to certain ships. The warm up phase also acts as an obvious buffer. However, it gives the destroyer something to actually manage now.

Next, the Swat Cannon. This was meant to be a sort of option to give the destroyers to actually fight when someone is simply circling them. Because of how the 'new suggested quantum bombardment' would work, it would become even more impossible to deal with anything other than a battlecruiser without some distance. As such, this is the first of the 'zoning methods' I wanted to suggest to help create some extra space. Furthermore, it also gives a little more thought going into what you're doing, and allows the destroyer to contribute a little bit more in those messy dog fights. NOTE: It is MEANT to be an inferior alternative.

Lastly, the concussive blast. This is the second 'zoning method' I wanted to propose in order to better allow its main weapon some real use. However, it was meant to be a sort of expensive alternative for more immediate and assured effects.

There are multiple upgrades I can think of if we wanted to run with this sort of idea--

An upgrade that reduces the cost of the Quantum Bombardment by 10 energy per second.
An upgrade that causes the Concussive Blast to reduce the throttle of those affected by it.
An upgrade to increase the increase the range of the Swat Cannon.
An upgrade to reduce the cooldown of the Swat Cannon.
An upgrade that increases the destroyers turn rate for a short time after either the initialization of Quantum Bombardment or the usage of its Concussive Blast.

There are plenty of ideas to be had; more an issue of 'what can be done' really. Furthermore, I'd also point out that the previous upgrades that exist for the destroyer are also still compatible.

[Caladbolg]

I might be out of the loop but what Whyte suggests sound infinitely more interesting and "revamp" worthy than Dread's. also I hate randomness. Winning or losing because your team was lucky enough to "proc" twice quickly or not is just a shitty feeling.

[Siretu]

I think the primary weapon in Whyte's suggestion would drain energy very quickly, and even though you can make the energy / projectile cost the same, it's not necessarily as fun to just unload everything at once. I like the utility aspect and it could definitely be added onto my idea below.

I was thinking last night and came up with something different. It can also be divided up into a modified primary weapon, a secondary weapon (and borrowing your utility weapon.

Primary weapon:
Same as before, but dealing damage with your primary weapon gives a passive charge. When you reach 10 charges, it immediately unloads an additional salvo. This is kind of similar to Dreadnought's idea but without the RNG, which makes it more useful in combination with the secondary weapon.

Secondary weapon:
This one is kind of similar to Whyte's idea. The weapon can be freely aimed (like the EMP) and it moves a bit slower than the EMP, but still kind of fast. Looks kind of like a laser zap. Hitting an enemy with it deals damage and applies a one-second debuff. This debuff makes them take a lot more damage (50%?) from the primary weapon.

This creates a dynamic where you have to first fire your primary weapon and then try to time a zap so the zap hits right before the primary does to deal maximum damage. To extend on this, if you do 2 salvos with your primary weapon and they all hit, you'll get 10 charges and release a free salvo. If you time the free salvo with your own salvo, you can get 2 salvos at once, which, along with the zap can cause incredible damage.

In my opinion, this creates both skill and fun with managing charges and timing zaps and definitely requires more thought than just pressing Q.

[Degra]

I might be out of the loop but what Whyte suggests sound infinitely more interesting and "revamp" worthy than Dread's. also I hate randomness. Winning or losing because your team was lucky enough to "proc" twice quickly or not is just a shitty feeling.

+1
Anything affecting the outcome of the game that isn't skill-related shouldn't be there.

Main Weapon - Quantum Bombardment
For 200 energy, the destroyer takes a 1.5 second warm up period in order to charge its Quantum Bombardment. If possible, this warm up phase would have some form of visual feedback, as a sort of 'warning light.' After its warm up period, the Destroyer would then begin to fire projectiles every 0.2 seconds, each shot dealing 50 damage, while consuming 100 energy a second. Toggling the ability off sets it on cooldown for 3 seconds.

Maybe also make the Destroyer immobile while it's active?
There isn't really any immobile ship yet and if you want to buff the Destroyer damage by 150%, it should have some drawback to it.
It would add a bit to BC manuevering in BC battles, to force the enemy Dessies to dock or cancel the bombardment. Makes Dessie shots slightly more dodgeable in close-range battles.

[WhyteDragon]

Regarding Siretu's thoughts...

I get where you're coming from, but I would highly advise making the destroyer about a little more than only damage, even if it should be the absolute main focus.

Wraith has its main cannon, but also a EMP projectile for slowing.
Corvette has its photon condensor, but also a shield and mobility enhancer.
Minelayer has mines, but also distress beacons, healing, and shield regeneration.
Even the utility primary Subjugator has an offensive option, and even the chomper and miner have offensive options.

With all that in mind, doesn't it seem strange that only the destroyer should be completely focused into 'damaging aspects'?

I don't think the idea of making the secondary weapon into a sort of support system for the primary weapon is bad. Just feels like if we give the destroyer 0 utility, pretty much every available ship will be able to effectively get around it. Pretty much every offensive ship has some sort of gapclosing mechanic or sufficient speed to close such a gap.

A term I see used for this a lot is 'counterplay.' What 'options' does a destroyer have against another small ship? How will it effectively fight all of these small ships that can get around its big blasty weapons with superior speed and mobility?

I understand that a large point of cruiser command is 'teamwork' and that ships can work together for optimal results, but I feel like it should be minimally possible for a destroyer to take on another small ship. It's a destroyer after all.

Main Weapon - Quantum Bombardment
For 200 energy, the destroyer takes a 1.5 second warm up period in order to charge its Quantum Bombardment. If possible, this warm up phase would have some form of visual feedback, as a sort of 'warning light.' After its warm up period, the Destroyer would then begin to fire projectiles every 0.2 seconds, each shot dealing 50 damage, while consuming 100 energy a second. Toggling the ability off sets it on cooldown for 3 seconds.

Maybe also make the Destroyer immobile while it's active?
There isn't really any immobile ship yet and if you want to buff the Destroyer damage by 150%, it should have some drawback to it.
It would add a bit to BC manuevering in BC battles, to force the enemy Dessies to dock or cancel the bombardment. Makes Dessie shots slightly more dodgeable in close-range battles.

I feel like if you're starting a bombardment with the destroyer, it already becomes optimal in a lot of situations to simply sit down and fire -- energy building, better aim, calculated distances... it's already a ship with a very difficult turn rate and a pretty slow move speed. I feel like giving it that minimal chase option may not be bad?

After all, it sounds really frustrating to sit down, fire for 2 seconds at the enemy battlecruiser, they boost, you shut systems down and then re-position yourself to do the exact same thing again over and over.

EDIT:

Also, regarding the numbers they're more just there to give generalized ideas. Not sure if they're appropriate -- the costs may be too high for what they do, but they're only there to give a general idea to begin with.

[Dreadnought]

Controlled chaos (i need a better name)- 50y 50b 50r - once activated, allows you to fire your next quantum bombardement wherever you want, 40s cooldown

[slapshot]

Perhaps a mode where it can fire further than normal, but requires manual aiming (as in camera unlocks, and the travel distance is increased, but you need to aim ahead by X seconds for it to hit)

also, a turbo warp (similar to what miners have) would be nice to have on the destroyers (again, vulnerable to wraith EMPs)

[WhyteDragon]

Controlled chaos (i need a better name)- 50y 50b 50r - once activated, allows you to fire your next quantum bombardement wherever you want, 40s cooldown

You didn't understand the idea at all, did you.

Perhaps a mode where it can fire further than normal, but requires manual aiming (as in camera unlocks, and the travel distance is increased, but you need to aim ahead by X seconds for it to hit)

Feels strange to look at the destroyer as 'the artillery.' It's a neat idea, just wonder if it's appropriate.

also, a turbo warp (similar to what miners have) would be nice to have on the destroyers (again, vulnerable to wraith EMPs)

Completely against this. It's a destroyer. Bulky. Slow. Unwieldy. Turbo warp sounds like the last thing it should have.