... I also kind of agree with everyone else that perhaps Science may be a better place for it if we do aim for it. And there's a couple of reasons for this;
1) Lack of science console relevance in combat. This would ameliorate that issue.
2) Power console is more more about 'managing numbers.' Core output, shield values, engine values, weapon values, and the capacitors -- 'types' doesn't fit very well into this sort of thematic.
3) Science console very often revolves around the theme of giving very 'particular' bonuses. This makes it a fairly ideal place for a 'shield type changer.'
4) This would create
interactivity between consoles. By example, weapons/navigation have to work together to an extent to launch missiles. Science has to load the yamato cannon for navigation. Science purges the core for power. Power gives weapon capacitor energy. Power routes energy to navigation for their throttle. Shoudn't following along this sort of trend be
encouraged?
Moreover--
Puppetbones wrote:Shields types:
We could perhaps make a set shields that directly counter certain weapon types by reducing amount of damage dealt by that certain weapon type, like:
- A shield that reduces BC laser damage
- A shield that reduces kinetic damage (including bleedthrough)
- A shield that reduces missile and yamato damage
- A shield that reduces small ship weapon damage
Or we could have a set of shields such that each one has a perk, like:
- A shield that extends shields to nearby allied small ships
- A shield that has no bleedthrough (both bleedthrough due to shield low HP and bleedthrough from kinetics)
- A shield that converts a small amount of incoming damage to energy (unless the damage is done by asteroids)
The first thing about section one that worries me about these suggestions is that although they work, all that basically comes from it is
numbers. The second section goes about a more creative way of implementing it. Going off that sort of style of upgrade, compared to the first when you have upgrades such as...
-A shield that has a harder to pierce bleedthrough value.
-A shield that innately reduces all damage sources by X.
-A shield that has an super easy to pierce bleedthrough value, but that more effectively absorbs shield damage.
... you can still see that there are
counters in a sense. The first is a kinetics counter. The second is good for dealing with small ship harass since they (effectively) have lower damage values than the battlecruiser following upgrades. The second is good for dealing with lasers since, while it leaks to hull, it's very energy effective for dealing with it.
But ultimately, they become less 'one dimensional.' Rather than just becoming 'more effective,' you add a little more depth that may not necessarily be apparent on the surface.
I.E. the second one actually has high early game potential, and still can be considered effective against things like wraiths, corvettes, and even still be useful against BC lasers to an extent, but has clear
weaknesses against things like Broadsides, Missiles, and Destroyers.
It relies on the
interaction with various game concepts in order to become more deep. The concepts are simple -- reduce by X -- but has the potential to be so much more.
I just feel like 'extra numbers' doesn't contribute in the way we should be looking for. If possible, I would actually much prefer to see all 'number' upgrades limited as much as possible as it creates an awkward dynamic that relies less upon skill and more upon 'having better values.' And while having them to an extent isn't bad, I just feel like they could be so much more.
... but that's something for another day.
Puppetbones wrote:Or we could even have a set of shield extensions via an active ability that buffs shields, but also does friendly damage, like:
- A shield that, while activated, increases resistance by X amount at a cost of X
/ X
per second (auto deactivates if there is no
or
)
- A shield that, while activated, increases shield resistance by X amount at a cost of X core stability per second
(a set like this could probably replace shield boost)
Would prefer to avoid this since it's ultimately coming back to entirely a numbers game.
Puppetbones wrote:I personally like the first set the best because its straightforward and adds more scouting/countering to the game.
Same issue as above -- just numbers. And I don't see how it leads to any more sense of 'scouting/countering' than the secondary style of 'effect based countering' rather than 'number based countering.'
Puppetbones wrote:Perhaps there could be an activate/deactivate switch in the power console, and it could be set up to only allow one shield type to be researched, like tiers. However, unlike tiers, perhaps you could still research a different one, which would unresearch the current one. And of course you could go back to your first one by researching it again. Thus making it so you can switch, but switching has both a time and resource cost.
How it could be included in the upgrades console:
Currently the BC upgrades menu is completely full, so perhaps make energy transfers have a submenu, freeing up 2 slots. Shield types could have a submenu too.
Just trying to get suggestions rolling...
Okay, so to take these one at a time;
Honestly, not 100% sure on how to handle switching. However, I'm fairly certain I don't like the idea of switching through upgrading. And there are a few reasons for that;
1) Another console that then effectively needs to be manned in combat. This sounds frustrating.
2) Creating a situation where you have to re-buy the shields means you reinforce 'resource stockpile syndrome,' where nobody wants to end the game because they feel like they need to be super prepared resource wise. It reinforces the necessity to overcome skill potential with economy stockpiling.
3) It goes against the existing upgrades thematic of 'lock and get.' Feels weird that you'd put a consumable on upgrades rather than, say,
construction.
There were a couple of ideas when this was discussed in skype, but frankly speaking I actually am favoring the idea of 'shield boost types' being the actual method of switching, and having all of these shield boost types sharing the same cooldown timer.
I.E. If you had a red, blue, and black shield, and you wanted to switch to red from blue, you'd have to do a red shield boost. All three shield boosts would then be on cooldown for X time.
Of course, following this logic would also require Shield Boost to be put onto Science Console.
... honestly, I would actually be pretty okay with that, considering things like Yamato/Core Purge are already there.
As for how to handle the upgrades, another possibility would also be to simply shove hardened shields and the shield upgrades into the Weapons submenu and simply call that something like 'Combat Upgrades.' I know Siretu seems to hate submenus, so limiting them is probably a more favorable option.
... and I know this effectively means 'oh, have to have another person on the BC to operate it,' but in a sense I also disagree. Depending on how these are handled, I can easily see this become more about
options of how to distribute your work force. I.E., can you honestly say what's more effective between utilizing a destroyer or shield boost? And moreover, it holds to the style of Science not requiring
constant attention. Means you could do your shield boost, switch off, repair, load missiles, upgrade... because it doesn't require constant maintenance, it's a lot more forgivable.
