The Racist Shields Thread

[Puppetbones]

Alright, Science it is.

Now for this to be implemented, I think we need to answer these questions (my thoughts/answers in spoilers):

• Are we going to have purchasing as a means of activation, or have purchasing and activation separate?

  My thoughts: Show

  I'm neutral here. With purchasing as a means of activation, it makes it much more scoutable because you can't just buy and hide it by not activating, but if purchasing and activation are separate, AI could (probably) more easily be commanded in the AI console.

• Are we going to make the shields a consumable or an upgrade?

  My thoughts: Show

  I think this is heavily dependent on the answer to the above question, so I'm gonna say I'm neutral here too.

• How many shields do we want?

  My thoughts: Show

  For me the sweet spot is 3 shield types with 1 effect each.

• What effects do we want? (We have some (serious) ideas, but not many)

  My thoughts: Show

  I really like the idea of spreading a shield to nearby small ships. Other than that, I have thought many of the others to be just OK.

• Can we activate multiple shields at once?

  My thoughts: Show

  No. The limitation of 1 shield type offers more decision making and scouting benefit.

• How hard is it to switch shields and how often can it be done?

  My thoughts: Show

  I think shield switching should be easy, but have a cooldown of several minutes. Again, this offers more decision making and scouting benefit.

• How much should it cost?

  My thoughts: Show

  Depends highly on the effects. I would say each one should cost at least some green, and 2 other colors depending on its effect.

[WhyteDragon]

Rather than proposing the solid idea in here, frankly, I think we need a new thread for it. It's of my opinion that whoever feels they have the full idea should write it up.

But not in here.

There's already too much stuff in here... hrrgh.

[Squid]

Reviving old threads.
Anyway, my thoughts on this?
Controlled by Science console.
Three types of shielding:
Heat Radiative
Reflects damage to shielding back at nearby enemy ships.
Costs
Deals nearby AOE dmg proportionally to damage taken. I'd assume this would work vs small ship strategies, like corvette assists or destroyers. Would damage enemy BC too, of course.
Energy Absorbant
Regenerates shields for hull dmg/maybe shield dmg taken.
Costs
Basically, works like it 'adds shield power' like at power console, proportionally to DMG currently being taken. For example, 50 dmg is being taken by hull/shields, 25 (or some other amount) is adding to shield power, therefore, 6 (i think) shield regenerates that second (Would need to be balanced)
Hardened Shields
You get the idea. Damage reduced.
Costs
Reduced damage. Like real shields.
Also, the Hardened Shields upgrade would be changed to Shield Efficiency upgrade (or a more creative name) and would increase effectiveness of shields (ect. higher damage by heat deflector, increased energy absorption by the energy absorption shields, less damage taken from hardened shields.
Also, Energy Absorbant and Heat Deflective shields would not get damage reduction from Hardened Shields (now shield efficiency) upgrades.
Just my ideas.

[WhyteDragon]

Here's my few thoughts regarding these fast--

Heat Radiative as a concept is fine. I even like it. But I do not think it will be useful -- how often do you purposefully approach the enemy BC as a small ship when they're taking excessively large amounts of damage? It's trying to support a niche that doesn't occur very often, making it a sort of 'Plasma Transfer' situation.

As for Energy Absorbant and Hardened Shields, I take issue with them because they're only about 'effective returns' rather than play style. They do very little to make you play differently, they mostly are there just for the sake of being a further number pad. Since this is something that is being actively used, it should require a more active role rather than just being stat padding.

That and if Energy Absorbant is just a return to shields based on hull damage, it becomes too linear and generic in terms of countering.
"Oh they're using kinetics, use energy absorbant"
"Oh they're using lasers, use hardened shields"

... in short it's extra intricacy without depth.

[Squid]

Here's my few thoughts regarding these fast--

Heat Radiative as a concept is fine. I even like it. But I do not think it will be useful -- how often do you purposefully approach the enemy BC as a small ship when they're taking excessively large amounts of damage? It's trying to support a niche that doesn't occur very often, making it a sort of 'Plasma Transfer' situation.

As for Energy Absorbant and Hardened Shields, I take issue with them because they're only about 'effective returns' rather than play style. They do very little to make you play differently, they mostly are there just for the sake of being a further number pad. Since this is something that is being actively used, it should require a more active role rather than just being stat padding.

That and if Energy Absorbant is just a return to shields based on hull damage, it becomes too linear and generic in terms of countering.
"Oh they're using kinetics, use energy absorbant"
"Oh they're using lasers, use hardened shields"

... in short it's extra intricacy without depth.

Intricacy without depth- indeed.
But thats the problem with the majority of this game.
In fact- using absorbant + hardened would be the same workings as using kinetics + lasers,
Use lasers to take down shields, Kinetics to deal damage.
Although in most games, only one type is taken- and kinetics are complimented by missiles.
Maybe we could think of some active abilities to complement the shielding- like missiles for the kinetics.
Although i am not asking for these ideas to be directly implemented- maybe we could think of something that complements the game well, with some tweaking of course.
About the heat shielding btw- Counters nearby wraith/corvette incursions, as well as destroyer attacks complementing the BC attacks.

[WhyteDragon]

For the heat shielding, I suppose that depends on the imagined range/reflection value. It begins to have other sorts of problems if it innately has a radius of effect spanning a screen and a half. It begins to have even larger issues if the relative damage of a single wraith can reflect enough splash to murder it. What would happen when a BC strikes then..?

And yes and no regarding the similarities to laser/kinetics. Kinetics has an express purpose behind being superior against small ships and hull, whereas lasers has a higher purpose behind accessibility and shield damage. And like you said, kinetics has further utility when combined with other utilities.

If you introduce hardened by itself it just becomes a stat bonus.
If you introduce hardened alongside absorbent they begin to exist for the express purpose of being direct counters to those weapon types. And if that's the case, it begins to take away from the purpose of even having those weapon types to begin with.

... looking back, the problem I sort of have with this idea as a whole is that shielding is a more reactionary based utility for the ship. You match it to the damage you take. As such, creating shielding types that have higher efficiency against particular weapon types only serves as a 'concept nullifies' -- it only exists to hurt existing ideas that require active actions. If we want to go through with this, we need 'active shield concepts.' AoE reflection damage leans towards this sort of concept, as it aims to a particular goal rather than simply denying an existing one.

[Squid]

I have to agree with you, however, these three types of shields will probably not work. Its really just a grope for ideas.
But i think we need more shield abilities- like if we were to convert these three types to abilities- like the Iron Curtain.

[Squid]

Alright. Ive got an idea.
1. 'Shield Types' will become active abilities like the Iron Curtain in the Science console.
2. Remove Iron Curtain
3. Introduce the three active ability types:
Heat Radiative Shielding
Costs
Deals 5 damage per second to nearby ships. A percentage of damage taken during this time will be dealt to nearby ships over 2 seconds.
Energy Absorbant Shielding (more creative name should be added :s)
Costs
(note, this is pretty much a weakened, more usable Iron Curtain)
50% of damage taken will be also added to Energy. Damage will still be dealt.
Hardened Shielding
Costs
Damage taken will be reduced by 40%, bleedthrough damage is dealt to Shields. (Damage taken is calculated after Hardened Shields upgrade (the passive upgrade))
4. Each ability lasts 10 seconds each.
5. The cooldown time for using these abilities is 40 seconds; using one will cause the rest to cooldown as well. (Simply, one one can be used every 40 seconds)
6. Missiles and the Yamato Cannon bypass all of these effects, in order to make them less useful lategame.
Note that i do not want my numbers directly added to the game; they are just suggestions and should probably be changed for balance :s