Cruiser Command

DinoChicken wrote:1) indeed, but it just doesnt 'feel' like it hurts the enemy, and for the matter, the enemy can just buy a new miner, since they are nice and cheap (thats a good thing, im not against cheap miners) and so there is no lossed mining time

I completely disagree with this. Now that the miner respawn time has been increased (or at least I've been under the illusion that it has been) I have always looked upon every miner death with a frustrated groan -- or at least, during the early game. People seem to have been mixing complaints about 'It's too hard to get the Tiered Upgrades, they cost too much' and 'It's too hard to disrupt economy the miners just come back.'

I'm personally just waiting for people to make the connection.

DinoChicken wrote:Also in a recent change, the timer to reconstruct ships has INCREASED....what?..... not very good, you have miners out for 300 seconds and destroyers out for a wopping 600 seconds. which clutters your hanger with reconstructing ships.

No. This is very much a good thing -- it creates a secondary punishment to losing ships that can be felt even if you have an excess of resources -- the inability to manipulate a hanger slot. Though to be honest, why would you want to recycle a destroyer? Most other things have much smaller respawn timers as well, so...

DinoChicken wrote:I think that there are alternative methods to not completely losing out early game like having 1 free miner on first miner loss or cheaper ships (miners are at a good price now, in the normal mode everyone has people go miners because its SO affordable, it would be nice to reduce the wraith to something like 15/15/20, but thats normal mode...so forget i said that for the moment) Later in the game there are more resources readily available and the map and upgrades more developed.

So long as we're taking this route, we may as well look at the extreme, as this is what it eludes to.

Why not just make wraiths and miners 100% free?

This truly takes away all punishment for the loss of a ship early on -- especially with the salvaging aspect. What's the point? Why bother worrying about your ships dying or not? If they're worth jack all, who cares about dying or not so long as your'e still pumping resources through?

The closer you get to a price of 0, the closer you get to this concept. You need to retain a significant form of punishment for death while still creating a situation where small ships become somewhat available for usage. Simply saying 'high prices' means incredible punishment for death, and low ship availability. Simply saying 'low prices' means tiny punishment for death, and high ship availability. It doesn't solve the issue -- it simply teeter totters on it.

Perhaps in some games, this sort of 'free' concept might work for the most basic ships. But I don't think it fits for cruiser command -- I don't have any particular explanation for it, I just don't. A free ship should be something that is an absolute inferior aspect, available in the worst case scenario or during the earliest stages of the games. Neither the wraith or miner fit that concept to me.

I have been for the most part trying to summarize and voice other peoples opinions.

WhyteDragon wrote:No. This is very much a good thing -- it creates a secondary punishment to losing ships that can be felt even if you have an excess of resources -- the inability to manipulate a hanger slot. Though to be honest, why would you want to recycle a destroyer? Most other things have much smaller respawn timers as well, so...

However, that is a complaint of mine. (i should go on and try to explain the upgrades console because this effect punishes whoever is behind on upgrades even more), because ships are even more deadly now when you are ahead in upgrades (the miner moving while mining is very strong and can take out retreating wraiths and corvettes, and now can attack while moving away, besides subjugator, but that ship is well done, no complaints there) Look the problem has always been *loosing ships early game* and the Hanger change dealt with that in a very good way...until the update that made everything much longer. Now when you lose a ship, all that precious time is gone and getting the miner back doesnt matter because the enemy is so far ahead with the 300 seconds of being a miner ahead, that miner essentially gets them their lead and in the case of Beta, is more deadly then the normal version. Before the timer change...yes you where affected, but it didnt make the lead very large, it gave the enemy an edge, but it was a workable and justifiable edge for losing a miner.

DinoChicken wrote:However, that is a complaint of mine. (i should go on and try to explain the upgrades console because this effect punishes whoever is behind on upgrades even more), because ships are even more deadly now when you are ahead in upgrades (the miner moving while mining is very strong and can take out retreating wraiths and corvettes, and now can attack while moving away, besides subjugator, but that ship is well done, no complaints there) Look the problem has always been *loosing ships early game* and the Hanger change dealt with that in a very good way...until the update that made everything much longer. Now when you lose a ship, all that precious time is gone and getting the miner back doesnt matter because the enemy is so far ahead with the 300 seconds of being a miner ahead, that miner essentially gets them their lead and in the case of Beta, is more deadly then the normal version. Before the timer change...yes you where affected, but it didnt make the lead very large, it gave the enemy an edge, but it was a workable and justifiable edge for losing a miner.

that miner essentially gets them their lead and in the case of Beta, is more deadly then the normal version

is more deadly then the normal version

That is 100%, undeniably incorrect. It is impossible for it to be more punishing since it creates a situation where it offers all of the same methods of 'pulling yourself out of the pit.' Absolutely 0 methods have been taken away for recovering from a miner loss. Instead, only 'options' have been created. With that in mind, just how could it possibly be more crippling?

I played a variety of Beta games yesterday, and I can fairly safely say in at least about 50% of them my team suffered the loss of an early miner. No doubt, it painful. It caused us issues, and it was difficult to work around. However, there were still options open to us -- exactly as it should have been. We were harassed and pissed on by a variety of small ships for a majority of the game, but we were still able to get things done by scrapping by minor amounts of resources over the course of a longer game and, by consequence, we were able to pull together wins from each of them.

Yeah -- the early miner kill is painful, but shouldn't it be? Like, honestly this seems like a matter of opinion to me at this point -- 'it's too long' or 'it's too short'... it can only be played by ear, and frankly the respawn times feel to me like they're at a fairly nice point right now, to the point where it's punishing early game and still noticeable later on -- I've seen my ship's hanger filled with 7 ships under reconstruction due to excess harassment, and frankly, I don't think that's a bad thing. If people die like crazy on their ships, it should clearly be noticeable.

oh...probably forgot to sum it up as 'because gaining an upgrade advantage is stronger in BETA then the normal version.' Forgot to put that into there

If anything, the Beta has made the rate at which both team upgrade more even, less one sided, unless one of them suffer a big lack of green. and in that case, classic or beta, you end up not having any useful upgrades.

Thanks to the tiering, the difference in upgrades usually isn't more than 1-2 ahead, except if you reach the 20 minute mark without any green. and if that happen, you would be dead anyway, beta or classic.